I got a PM from Tear of The Angel from Dakka last night offering to do a list for me, because Mark (Mercer) keeps beating me.
This is the list he sent me:
Well if he doesen't mind letting use IA stuff try this list it should be alot of fun for you.
HQ
Librarian w/ shield and smite 100 pts
Elites
Furioso librarian w/ shield and unleash rage, Lucius pattern droppod 225 pts
Furioso librarian w/ shield and unleash rage, Lucius pattern droppod 225 pts
Furioso w/ blood talons, Lucius pattern droppod 175 pts
Troops
10 death company w/ 1 power weapon infernus pistol, 1 thunder hammer, droppod 295 pts
9 assault marines w/ meltagun, powerfist, droppod 207 pts
Death co. dread w/ blood talons, lucius pattern droppod 175 pts
Death co. dread w/ blood talons, lucius pattern droppod 175 pts
Heavy Support
Dreadnought w/ multimelta, droppod 140 pts
Dreadnought w/ multimelta, droppod 140 pts
Dreadnought w/ multimelta, droppod 140 pts
It comes out to be 1997 pts
The Idea for the list is the 5 furioso pattern dreads can come in on the first turn and assault, also shoot. The regular dreads are there for popping tanks if there any left. Only one scoring unit but its there to come in later and take an open objective that is if you don't wipe off his army first. I have other list to but need to know what it is that you like to run.
Lets take a look at this list.
HQ
I like librarians but I'm not too sure about the powers selected for this one. Shield is a good choice as it give a 5+ cover save during your opponents turn giving you a little bit more staying power. Smite on the other hand is only and assault 4 AP 2 bolter, I think a better choice would be unleash rage which would give me re-rolls to hit and wound in every assault phase. Once he arrives (I assume he is placed with the assault squad) these powers will be pretty redundant as long as the dreads have done their job.
I personally think a reclusiarch or even a captain (sorry Mark) would be a better choice as the assault squad are only supposed to sit on an objective shooting.
Elites
2 big librarian dreads that's nearly 500 points on two units, I can see why you would put them into drop pods but to be honest with drop pods you've got no guarantee that they are going to land in assault range not to mention that armour 13 on the front is going to suffer badly if they don't get the charge and land near a melta unit. Even a krak missile is going to be a potential risk. What you also have to think about is there are only 3 of them if they double up on one transport to deal with the unit inside you're either going to have one standing around doing nothing and getting shot to pieces, or your going to hit that transport smash it to pieces then get counter charged or shot in the following turn. End result BOOM no more dread.
Troops
Lets start with death company, 295 points for a drop pod mounted assault unit with feel no pain is way too much. DC are good at what they do but they still need mobility with no jump packs or transport you looking at a foot slogging unit that is going to be shot to pieces before you get into your second assault. Not to mention the rage special rule which going to allow your opponent to get them chasing an empty transport or cheap unit for the whole battle and not really having an effect.
9 man assault squad? They come with jump packs and descent of angels as standard why remove that to put them in a drop pod? By removing their jump packs you also remove their mobility. You would have been better off taking a 10 man squad and giving them 2 special weapons, you still get to deep strike you only scatter a max of 6 inches and you have more fire power. Couple that with a librarian with Shield and unleash and a jump pack and you've got a hard hitting unit.
More dreads expensive, big targets again not my choice for the reasons already mentioned. Also these points would be better spent on troops who could hold objectives.
Heavy support
More dreadnoughts, OK these ones are kitted out for shooting but they are only going to kill a single model or tank each which means horde armies are going to be crawling all over your dreads before they can make their points back.
OK so it looks like this list is flawed but on the whole it's not a bad list but personally I don't like it. There is plenty of target saturation but because it's all deep striking you're going to have to run the risk of things not turning up when they are needed.
With only having one troops choice that can hold objectives it's going to attract a lot of fire in the turn in which it arrives. This is going to be a big problem in objectives games because you are always going to be playing catch up. Not to mention the fact that the list is very slow moving which means after the initial drop assault you're going to be left chasing and opponent who can pick and choose his targets whilst avoiding your threat units.
Yes Blood Angels can run a dreadnought list but to be honest by relying on these to do all the donkey work your limiting your tactical options, your only real choice with this list is to drop in get a charge in in that turn and then try and chase your opponent down whilst avoiding his heavy weapons.
So in summary I appreciate the suggestions but to be honest this is a list which is too 1 dimensional yes it's going to win a couple of games but because of the limits on the tactics you can use it's soon going to get thrashed by any opponent with serious mobility. Blood Angels are equipped with some of the best power buff units and fast vehicles, not to mention their ability to take assault units as troops means you can build an incredibly mobile army that can hit hard. By focusing on the cheesier aspects of the codex you are causing yourself some serious headaches.
Sorry if I sound ungrateful but I really see the fascination with running dread list when there are so many other strong units that can do the same job for less points and give you more flexibility.
Troops
Lets start with death company, 295 points for a drop pod mounted assault unit with feel no pain is way too much. DC are good at what they do but they still need mobility with no jump packs or transport you looking at a foot slogging unit that is going to be shot to pieces before you get into your second assault. Not to mention the rage special rule which going to allow your opponent to get them chasing an empty transport or cheap unit for the whole battle and not really having an effect.
9 man assault squad? They come with jump packs and descent of angels as standard why remove that to put them in a drop pod? By removing their jump packs you also remove their mobility. You would have been better off taking a 10 man squad and giving them 2 special weapons, you still get to deep strike you only scatter a max of 6 inches and you have more fire power. Couple that with a librarian with Shield and unleash and a jump pack and you've got a hard hitting unit.
More dreads expensive, big targets again not my choice for the reasons already mentioned. Also these points would be better spent on troops who could hold objectives.
Heavy support
More dreadnoughts, OK these ones are kitted out for shooting but they are only going to kill a single model or tank each which means horde armies are going to be crawling all over your dreads before they can make their points back.
OK so it looks like this list is flawed but on the whole it's not a bad list but personally I don't like it. There is plenty of target saturation but because it's all deep striking you're going to have to run the risk of things not turning up when they are needed.
With only having one troops choice that can hold objectives it's going to attract a lot of fire in the turn in which it arrives. This is going to be a big problem in objectives games because you are always going to be playing catch up. Not to mention the fact that the list is very slow moving which means after the initial drop assault you're going to be left chasing and opponent who can pick and choose his targets whilst avoiding your threat units.
Yes Blood Angels can run a dreadnought list but to be honest by relying on these to do all the donkey work your limiting your tactical options, your only real choice with this list is to drop in get a charge in in that turn and then try and chase your opponent down whilst avoiding his heavy weapons.
So in summary I appreciate the suggestions but to be honest this is a list which is too 1 dimensional yes it's going to win a couple of games but because of the limits on the tactics you can use it's soon going to get thrashed by any opponent with serious mobility. Blood Angels are equipped with some of the best power buff units and fast vehicles, not to mention their ability to take assault units as troops means you can build an incredibly mobile army that can hit hard. By focusing on the cheesier aspects of the codex you are causing yourself some serious headaches.
Sorry if I sound ungrateful but I really see the fascination with running dread list when there are so many other strong units that can do the same job for less points and give you more flexibility.
Kris I'm glad you come to your senses. I would be ok with the Lucius Pods as long as I know the rules, however the list is terribad. Why, here's why:
ReplyDelete1. Dreadnought saturated with Drop Pods. Librarian Dreadnought isn't massively offensive range and the Furioso is assault unit - you cannot assault from Drop Pods! Wasted unit.
2. Only one scoring units which means I kill them and probably won and the chances of winning objectives games are extremely slim.
3. Too many points invested into point sink Death Co, Justicar has learned about this unit ;) Plus in a Drop Pod and cannot assault out - utter crapola!
4. Assault Squad has 9 because of Libby but why remove ability to Drop Pod in and then you cannot assault - waste of time.
5. Zero ranged weapons and packing four melta weapons, how would this beat my Imperial Guard and Iron Warriors? It wouldn't is the answer.
I don't want to sound rude but if you're going to offer list advice to people make sure it's decent and not utter rubbish. TBF I've actually provided list feedback for this user before on other poor lists and it never gets listened to if I remember right.
Avoid this list like the plague!
The only saving grace is that lucius pattern drop pods allow dreadnoughts to assault on the turn they land.
ReplyDeleteThat being said you still have to land within charge range.
Death Company Dreads have the advantage here with being fleet. They can drop, run, and charge... Plus if you are clever with your positioning, you can dramatically decrease their chance of scattering out of charge range thanks to their inertial guidance systems - but oppurtunities for this are subject to the placement of terrain and your opponent...
ReplyDeleteHe needed the 10 man DC to get the dreads. That is the only reason they are there. As such I would drop the power weapon and infernus pistol and use the points to take an extra assault marine with melta gun, and try to squeeze the points somewhere to give the libby a jump pack...
I have been toying with the idea of a dreadnought list (as Mercer may recall), but I would be happy with the six provided by the Elites and Heavy Support sections of the FOC and would instead fill out my troops with melta/flamer assault squads...
The guy put together a good dread list but in my opinion there are just too many high cost single model units to make it fit how I play.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's not really how I would do a dread list either... But hey, at least he tried, right? Right?!
ReplyDeleteHe's trying but with the blood angels being able to field whole armies of jump packs it begs the question why go for a slow list when you can hit hard and fast.
ReplyDeleteSlow can be fun...
ReplyDeletePlus there is strength in bucking the trend, being unexpected allows you to achieve things your opponent could have never foreseen...
The dread list still sucks but...